On March 2, 2012, filmmakers Lisanne Pajot and James Swirsky screened their award-winning film Indie Game: The Movie to a packed theater of eager, enthusiastic students, gamers, press, and game designers in a Santa Cruz theater. After the conclusion of the movie, the pair was joined on stage by two of the game devs who also starred in the documentary — Phil Fish of Polytron (Fez) and Edmund McMillen and Tommy Refenes of Team Meat (Super Meat Boy, The Binding of Isaac). The group addressed audience questions ranging from non-linear narratives in videogames to…well, why struggling game devs shouldn't live on an all-pizza diet. We’ve transcribed some of our favorite, insightful bits into an abbreviated overview of the hour-long Q&A session below.
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Audience member question: When is Fez coming out?
Phil Fish: Pretty soon. Pretty soon. It’s undergoing certification at Microsoft right now. It can come out as early as late March. It’s a real thing. It’s happening. For real. No more lies.
Lisanne Pajot: So why don’t you tell everyone what’s happened since we see the end of the film?
PF: S***, I don’t know. It’s been such a crazy time-blur. We wrapped up the game — that happened — and I still don’t really realize any of it. And then all of a sudden, I didn't have anything to do anymore. And that was weird. Because you wake up one morning and you have this whole entire day ahead of you and you think “what am I going to do?” and then you get kind of depressed and it’s weird.
Everybody’s warned me about that. These guys [pointing at Team Meat] were like “watch out, you’re gonna be soooo depressed when you’re done with the game” and I was like ”no, why would I? I’m gonna be happy and the game’s gonna be done and it’s gonna be awesome.” And sure enough. It’s bizarre, it’s kind of this in between phase where nothing is really happening. Well, this is happening [referring to the movie screening]. Been doing a lot of promotion; I’m not making the game I’m just promoting, so I get to travel and see a lot of people.
Tommy Refenes: Yeah, the game came out. He bought a house. My story isn’t all that interesting. I bought a car, then I dated this chick for a while and I hated her. And then I moved to like three or four different places, and then I moved to SF and I met Shannon – who’s back there. And then she’s awesome. I don’t hate her at all. I actually love her like a whole bunch.
Edmund McMillen: How long has it been since? Over a year, now? I worked on another game, called the Binding of Isaac. Um, and that did surprisingly well as well. And we got a house. That’s basically all I’ve been doing.
Audience member question: Super Meat Boy? When is it coming to PS3?
TR: Never. Blame Sony. I sent them a version of Meat Boy running on a PS3 and they forgot to play it. True story.
PF: If you like videogames, you should check out Xbox. It’s pretty rad.
Audience member question: You mentioned Kickstarter [was instrumental in the production of Indie Game: The Movie]. Do you see the next wave of independent game development and movies being funded by the internet and the people who actually want the product rather than producers? Double Fine just did…
LP: What do we think about Kickstarter? That’s how we made the movie because a good chunk of people in this room here gave us money. And do we think it’s the future? I think so. Well, obviously they did so well with the Double Fine venture.
James Swirsky: It’s such a simple, elegant idea. Like it’s just I want to make this thing and I think it’s a good idea, do you think it’s a good idea? And if you think I can make it and you want to see me make it, buy it now. It’s a trust system for sure. I think it’s great for a lot of projects out there, I don't think it’s gonna be for everything — but yeah.
LP [to Fish and Team Meat]: What do you guys think of preorders and games?
PF: For Fez we couldn’t do it because it’s on Xbox, and there’s just no way to release the game ahead of time. Pretty much constantly during development, I’d get people saying things like “Why won’t you take my money? Take it! Take my money! I have it! GIMME THE GAME!” And we just didn’t have a system to do any kind of preorder or open beta. But had we funded the game through Kickstarter, people could’ve given us their money right away…it would’ve been a lot easier.
There are a lot of big success stories on Kickstarter these days. Double Fine just had their crazy thing happen; this game FTL just got 500% funded in two days or something like that. It’s not just a fluke. These things go on for so long…it’s not like the Kickstarter is done, it was a success…it takes a while to get the money. It takes a while to send all the t-shirts and stuff to all the people, and then it takes a while for the product — in the case of a videogame or a film — to come out.
So a lot of it is hinging on the people who are actually doing the Kickstarter actually delivering. And we’re just starting to see that. Your project [to Lisanne and James] is one of the higher profile ones that’s actually starting to come full circle. And it’s alright…it’s pretty good… [Audience laughs]
But I think there’s a danger that people are going to get carried away with Kickstarter and a lot of those projects might go nowhere, or people won’t get their stuff in the mail. And there could be this growing distrust of the system. I mean, right now it’s working and everyone’s super excited and it’s like blue skies…and you can do anything you want with the platform. Hopefully it sticks around because [in quieter voice] I want to do one
Edmund McMillen: I think for us, even though you see all the s*** that we went through, not having a lot of money, but that’s what motivated us to finish the game. That’s what really put all of the blood and guts into it and sometimes I think having funding and money first makes you feel like you’ve done something already. I think that can kill creativity…
LP: You have all these people going “where’s the movie?”
EM: You have that, too — all the pressures of all the people who’ve already paid you the money.
LP: It’s a lot of pressure.
EM: Maybe I'm a different person, but I would be up at night thinking of all the people that I would disappoint eventually. It’s horrible! I don’t want your money until I’ve made something that I feel good about and I’m done with it. Then you can pay me if you’d really like to.
Danielle McMillen: Some people don’t do well with obligation and under that pressure…I mean, if it’s the very first game that you’re making, just do your project, be poor, work your day job, get some experience, don’t start a Kickstarter — it wouldn’t get funded, but — you shouldn’t get used to a lifestyle…I mean it’s crazy. Someone shouldn’t give you a grant for like $250,000. You may get used to a lifestyle that isn’t gonna continue. Just be smart.
EM: Be poor.
DM: Yeah, be poor. It’s fun in a “god, I don’t want to be poor anymore…” [way].
PF: In my own experience, not having a Kickstarter for Fez, not having accepted people’s money at events, the level of entitlement you get from these a**holes. Like, I can’t imagine if I actually accepted their money. They’d show up at my door saying “HEY WORK HARDER! I’M A PARTNER ON THIS PRACTICALLY!” Like “You owe me something now! For real!” Like that must be…did you get that? [to Lisanne and James]
LP: Not as much? [audience laughs] The awesome part is that all these people that you feel like you know, like there’s a guy in the audience who…he bought the Special Edition [of Indie Game: The Movie] twice. And he’s here, he’s in the audience, and we were like “You bought the special edition TWICE!” It was just so awesome to meet people who care so much. Having people care so much about your project is nice.
