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Patrick Murphy:
You guys always have things like HDTVs, headsets, and other electronic stuff and I was wondering what you do with all of the th ...
OXM SAYS:
Generally, we return them. HDTVs are obtained with legally binding loan agreements; we have generally 30 to 45 d...MORE
Posted on: Apr 07, 2008
Achievements…Locked
WORDS BY: Casey Lynch
What’s more lucrative: creating a new product or updating and re-releasing a proven product? Ask anyone in business, and you’ll find it’s almost unanimously the latter. Look at home video — from VHS and laserdisc to multiple DVD and HD DVD or Blu-ray purchases, fans are happy to buy the same media over and over again if we’re promised new commentaries, deleted scenes, or even a director’s cut of a movie we already own. The movie studios understand this and reap the benefits every time they re-release the newest “really really ultimate edition” of films like Blade Runner or The Matrix.
Curiously, the same trend hasn’t been adopted by the gaming industry. We’ve seen some ports and a few games re-released with updated content — The Godfather and Tomb Raider Anniversary come to mind — but most “special editions” feature the original game with a few, often obligatory add-ons (a forgettable art booklet, a figurine, and maybe a making-of documentary).
This could work for games, too. Who wouldn’t buy “360 Special Editions” of Splinter Cell Pandora Tomorrow or Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic, complete with re-touched graphics and added Achievements — or that Holy Grail of shooter dreams, a Live-enabled version of Halo: Combat Evolved? We’d hoped for these kinds of upgrades when Microsoft announced the Xbox Originals program on Xbox Live Marketplace, but none appeared. Specifically, we started to wonder why Microsoft didn’t at least add Achievements to the games; could it really be that hard? We did some poking around and found some interesting answers.
Enter the Originals
In case you haven’t heard the news, gamers can currently download Halo: Combat Evolved, Fable, Psychonauts, Crimson Skies: High Road to Revenge, Burnout 3, Crash Bandicoot: The Wrath of Cortex, Fuzion Frenzy, and Indigo Prophecy, as well as the recently announced Ninja Gaiden Black, Sid Meier’s Pirates! and Black, for 1,200 Microsoft points ($15) each from Xbox Live Marketplace. The games are delivered in their original state and are identical in content (barring a few squashed bugs) to their retail DVD-ROM brethren. When Microsoft announced Xbox Originals and started receiving questions about the possibility of Achievements being part of the mix, the company released this official statement:
“These are the original games that were created before Xbox 360. In order to preserve the integrity of the original gaming experience they provide, they will have the features available at the time of their initial release.”
For a lot of gamers, that response doesn’t make sense. Microsoft invented the highly successful Achievements system; how would extending that system jeopardize the integrity of an older game? It hasn’t hurt the 35-or-so coin-op classics like Gauntlet, Galaga, and Golden Axe that are currently available through Xbox Live Arcade, each of which has been upgraded with 200 Gamerscore each. And as gamers, we understand that beating Ninja Gaiden Black on the Master Ninja difficulty is a reward unto itself. But does anyone really get hurt if you award some points for proof and credibility?
Marc Whitten, general manager of Xbox Live, explains Microsoft’s decision to forgo adding Achievements this way: “We didn’t add new features because we wanted Xbox Originals to be like the originals you played and loved on the Xbox. While we could have added in new graphics, Achievements, and features, we decided to keep the games the same as they were when they launched, as it provides Xbox 360 owners with an experience most like the original one.”
Fri, 04/11/2008 - 13:11
Posted by geek24
wtf bill gates wtf is up?
Thu, 04/10/2008 - 15:56
Posted by ezilylost13
Heptarch, well stated, but I think you are looking too much into this. Although I would love to have achievements in all my old games, the only ones I would expect them to put them in would be the xbox originals. So far that is less than a dozen titles and I think they would be making hand over fist with just a little dev work (read: two programers in a short time). I still got my $90 that is waiting just for this. It won't take away from the games I plan on buying anyway, I'm still going to get GTA IV (on 360 why? because I can't get achievements on PS3) Shouldn't that tell you something. Oh and found this too:
http://www.planetxbox360.com/index.php/articledetails/show/3739
Wed, 04/09/2008 - 18:14
Posted by Spybreak
Yea totally agree, not having achievements for xbox originals is stupid and making them 15 bucks is adding insult to injury. Thankfully I already have Crimson Skies which I bought off of ebay a while ago for 8 bucks when everyone forgot about that game lol.
Wed, 04/09/2008 - 16:11
Posted by Heptarch
I think that Microsoft's decision on this is motivated by the same criteria as its other decisions: Money.
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In basic terms, it may not be very profitable, and may in fact seem pointless, to add achievements to old games. If they add achievements to one old game, then they may need to add it to another.
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And it's not simply Microsoft adding those achievements, it's *the developers* doing so. One developer may not opt to do more work on an old game, and another developer may decide not to. It would be a morass... some games with achievements, and some without.
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Look at it from a developer's perspective: An old game, which they *already sold you*. (Hence, they have no more money to make from it) And some of these old developers may no longer have an active licensing agreement with Microsoft to develop content. As you can see, the situation is much more complicated than you might think.
_
You could end up having bazillions of gamers, sending mostly-annoying messages to both developers and Microsoft, requesting/begging/badgering/demanding that their favorite original Xbox game get some achievements. Or, gamers might desire to bug developers to add in achievements on even the most crappy, profitless titles just so they can get credit for every last little game they ever bought, rented or borrowed from a friend, simply to inflate their gamer score. (Which I don't particularly care much about, but I know others do)
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What's more, retrofitting original Xbox games with achievements would encourage gamers to go back and play OLD Xbox titles -- titles which they can get more cheaply, or even find on the bargain bin -- instead of purchasing *new titles*. Any move in this direction would discourage new development for the Xbox 360. At the end of the day, Developers have to pay the rent and the utilities, just like the rest of us. And they're less likely to spend weeks, if not months or even years, on a new game (which they don't get any money from until AFTER it's released) if they don't think enough people will buy it for the target platform. (Xbox 360) That's just how it goes.
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So, while some of us may be bummed by this decision, it was probably the smart decision to make. Ultimately, this is about progress. Microsoft's decision will better ensure that developers (and gamers) will be looking forward, to NEWER games, which push the envelope and bring us better experiences to share with each other. That's the way it ought to be.
Wed, 04/09/2008 - 05:45
Posted by Purp1eHayes
I think it's funny that they are rationalizing not including achievements and multiplayer by saying that they do not expect a large number of people to buy them anyway, but then they turn around and keep all the Xbox Original games in the "new features" blade in the marketplace for a couple of months instead of taking them down after two weeks like they have with all of the other content.
Most content will only stay on there for 2 weeks, but "Black" and "Ninja Gaiden Black" are still listed there as new releases! Earth to Microsoft - people want achievements and extra features added to these games and will not buy them until that is done, no matter how long you keep them up there. If it's not worth your time to add extra features to these games, it won't be worth people's time to download them.
I really do not understand Microsoft's stubborness on this issue. Taking such a hard stance against including a feature that has been almost universally requested by fans is not a good move on their part. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Originals continue regardless as they probably do not cost much to maintain, but they'll never amount to anything near what they could have unless Microsoft listens to the fans and gives them what they want. We know it's doable, MS, now get to doin.
Wed, 04/09/2008 - 05:15
Posted by Steakslave
GET THIS!: Every now and then, I play an original Xbox game on my original Xbox. I recently finished the campaign on Return to Castle Wolfenstein and wanted to check out the online multiplayer. So I put it in my 360 (which is hooked to the internet). When I returned to the dasboard and was looking at my played games, there was Wolfenstein with a nice fat "0 Gamerscore" next to it! Original disc games didn't always show up on the played games list, so why now? Other players can't see it, but from my console you can. Why would they go to the trouble of adding an unwanted feature like this when I can NEVER gain achievements and must ALWAYS see a 0G next to a title? Dumb.
Tue, 04/08/2008 - 23:47
Posted by ezilylost13
Jason, although I agree with your logic, I argue that this must have to do with more than just $. Like I stated earlier, I have money just sitting there, waiting to be spent on games with achievements and I can't be the only one. I don't understand why Microsoft would even go through the trouble of making the originals service if they didn't plan on a significant number of peolple using it.
Tue, 04/08/2008 - 20:36
Posted by brendanj2
Maybe the reason why "It’s unlikely that more than 10 percent of Xbox Live members will download any of these games" is because there is little incentive to do so. If these Xbox Originals got upgraded graphics, online support and achievements, way more people would buy them. Let's face it: Microsoft does not care about original Xbox any more. That is why not all original xbox games are backwards compatable on the 360. Microsoft simply does not feel like putting much effort into improving the games that made the Xbox so popular in the first place. Do not expect their attitudes to change much when the third Xbox console comes out. The most important thing to Microsoft is Xbox Live, not so much the systems that it is run on. That is probably why Xbox 360's are made so poorly. That is also why Xbox Originals was established as a way to get more customers, not as a way to re-master old, favorite videogames.
Tue, 04/08/2008 - 16:52
Posted by JasonPWhite
it ain't no big thing. here's the deal: i work for a software development company, so i know - "the suits" make all the decisions as to what goes into and what says out of a software product. and "the suits" base all of their decisions on $$$ with this easy-to-understand formula: profit = income - costs. so from microsoft's decision here we can clearly see that the cost of adding achievements to xbox originals exceeds the amount of income they expect to receive from xbox originals by a certain profit margin which they estimated during the last business quarter. microsoft isn't out to get us! it's just simple math - just numbers, that's all.
Tue, 04/08/2008 - 16:22
Posted by ATLien4evr
Rock Chalk Kansas baby!
Tue, 04/08/2008 - 05:39
Posted by Mitch OXM
:(
Tue, 04/08/2008 - 01:53
Posted by Bubba L
This is Microsoft just being stubborn. I know that it takes a longtime to do this but saying that gamers don't want or need is just being careless and looking for an excuse to not making it available.
Mon, 04/07/2008 - 23:07
Posted by ezilylost13
So so so so so so so so discouraging. This article depressed me to no end. I have $90 dollars just waiting to be spent on X-Box originals if achievements are ever added. Halo, Psychonots, Crimson Skys, Pirates!, Fable, would all be bought tonight if they had achievements as would either of the KOTORs (if they come out on originals). I already own all of these and have played them once or twice as BC. I refuse to purchase anything off of originals untill they fix this (which I guess will not happen)
Mon, 04/07/2008 - 22:52
Posted by cart00nstrip
“We haven’t and won’t add Achievements to Xbox Originals.” Well then I haven't and won't be buying any Xbox Originals. It's not worth the extra time or drive-space to download one of these if I can't add to my gamerscore!
gt: cart00nstrip
Mon, 04/07/2008 - 21:46
Posted by sprinter461
Why would I want to spend $15 to download something and take up drive space when I can find the same thing on disc, at GameStop for half or less? ACHIEVEMENTS! DUH! I've actually been buying each original game, on disc at GameStop... I owned an Xbox, but not one of these games at the time... Yes even Halo, I wasn't into FPS games at the time.
But now that I've gotten a 360, I've been picking up many Xbox games, they are so cheap, it's hard not to. I bought Crimson Skies for $2.99!
But let's be honest, I am a gamerscore freak! Achievements ARE a huge thing to me. I own only a 360 as of right now, but would like to get a Wii for the Nintendo exclusives, and possibly a PS3 someday, although primarily as a Blu-Ray player, unless Microsoft gets off their ass and makes an add-on to replace my HD-DVD add on, but that's another story...
Once I own multiple systems, any game that is multi platform will be bought ONLY on the 360. Why? ACHIEVEMENTS! DUH! I think Microsoft REALLY dropped the ball on this one, and underestimated how addictive achievements really are.
I won't consider buying ANY Xbox Original game on Marketplace that does NOT have achievements. I can get them easily now, for far less cash, and not have to worry about any DRM nonsense... Don't get me started on DRM, that's another story from hell as well...